"The grant experience nightmare..."

0:07

Hi everyone. Welcome to The Nonprofit Diaries, where we share the stories that don't make the newsletter.

0:13

I'm your host, Kimberly Bottom, and this week's guest is an accomplished nonprofit professional who I absolutely ambushed on LinkedIn.

0:20

His content about being an ethical and accountable leader was just so insightful that I reached out to him. I scheduled a call and just point-blank asked him to come on the podcast, which—I'm so thankful he's a kind human—he agreed to.

0:35

So everyone, please welcome seasoned educator, thought leader, and the founder and executive director of the Inner Spark Learning Lab, Jacob Adams. Jacob, thank you for being here.

0:45

What's up, Kimberly? Thank you for the invite. Yeah, I was excited when you reached out, so I'm definitely excited to chat.

0:51

Well, thank you for being a kind human. I know with LinkedIn nowadays we're like, "Is this a robot?" And I swear I'm not. I just find cool people online and I'm like, "Hi, do you want to be my friend?" So, thank you for being my friend.

1:01

No, for sure. I definitely had to do a little backend research.

1:04

Yeah, totally fair. That's fine! You can absolutely do the profile creep. It's expected; I would hope that you do.

1:10

Anyway, before we jump into your diary entry, I want everybody on the podcast to know all about Inner Spark Learning Lab. So, tell me about it: what prompted you to start this incredible nonprofit?

1:19

Yeah, for sure. So Inner Spark Learning Lab—I like to say our mission is to transform education from the inside out by making schools a place that kids want to be.

1:28

Fundamentally, school should be a place where we like to learn at a minimum, let alone love to learn. But for most kids right now, out of all the places they spend a substantial amount of time, they're the most dissatisfied with school.

1:47

I saw that firsthand as a first-grade teacher in Brownsville, Brooklyn. I was teaching at a school where, on paper, you would think it was one of the "best" schools in the state in terms of test scores, but the place was run like a prison. Kids had to sit with their hands together, there was no recess, and they couldn't talk at lunch. Everything was so controlled.

2:05

I think in education, we're not even asking the right questions, because the schools that are often deemed as models of success are not creating kids who know who they are, know what they care about, and feel like they can use what they're learning to improve themselves and their community.

2:24

What a great reason to just say, "I don't see the solution, so I'm going to make it." Props to you for that. Love what you're doing, and love that you've been at this for almost 10 years, right?

2:36

It's been a minute! I did not have any gray hair then, but now...

2:40

I didn't have hair then, though, so at least I couldn't lose that—it was already gone!

2:44

Well, for the hundreds, if not thousands, of students that you have benefited, that little bit of gray hair is just an ode to them. That's like a reminder of what you've done. So I think it's a good thing when you look in the mirror and say, "Yeah, I did that."

2:58

Thank you. I like that.

2:59

Very nice. All right, let's set the stage for your diary entry, because I know that one of the revenue streams that you have for Inner Spark is grant funding. But you recently discovered that not every grant is created equal, is that right?

3:11

Yeah. So, this was a few years ago at this point. It was a grant through LA County—or city, one of the two, it can get confusing out here. At the time, it was a relatively large grant for us, a three-year grant. They said to apply for all of the options that you feel eligible for.

3:32

For one, I asked for the maximum budget—maybe $750k—and the budget reflected it. For the other one, I asked for a smaller amount, like $250k over three years. That was all based on strategy and what they told us.

3:47

When we found out that we got the smaller grant, which was cool, they never said anything about the big one. When I talked to what they call a "grant advocate"—which is the opposite of what they should have called them, because they were not advocating for me—I remember asking her, "Hey, what's up? When are we going to hear back about the other grant?"

4:06

And she was like, "Oh, you can't get two. You can only get one." From the very beginning, I was frustrated, because had I known that, I wouldn't have even used that strategy when applying. But that was just the beginning, right?

4:22

You would have only applied for the bigger one!

4:23

Right, exactly.

4:25

Oh, that's a bummer.

4:26

Exactly. Yeah. So then after we got the grant, they were like, "Okay, you have to create these milestones for every quarter." Which is like, all right, now we've got to make some stuff up. I mean, we're going to do the work, but you have to make up these formal metrics.

4:43

None of this was explained beforehand. We created the milestones right before winter break and sent them over, and they were like, "Oh, we need to have a meeting to go over them." I was like, "Okay, fine."

4:54

So we had a meeting, and someone from their team was legitimately in the milestone document retyping the goals as we were talking about them, which—whatever, they can do that. We submitted them.

5:05

Then, maybe three or four days before Christmas, the grant advocate calls me and says, "Hey, we need to meet tomorrow to go over the milestones." I was like, "No, we're not doing that. I'm on break. I mean, y'all don't have to go on break, but I'm not here. So email me whatever feedback you have from the document you typed into, and then I'll look at it and get back to you."

5:32

She was like, "Okay, fine." They never got back to me, and then three weeks later after break, they called me again: "Hey, we need to meet tomorrow at this time to go over the stuff."

5:41

I was like, "Look, my team doesn't even talk to each other like this. We don't call someone and tell them they have to meet the next day when we barely know you."

5:51

With this grant in particular, there's weekly reporting, monthly reporting, and quarterly reporting. If you're late on your quarterly reports, they withhold your grant.

6:02

On top of that, they do quarterly site visits. For the last site visit—and we've had four different grant advocates over three years, so clearly something isn't going right over there—I walked into the class and there was some random man in there. I was like, "Who's this?" Clearly it was her husband or boyfriend, and he doesn't work there. He had no business being at the site visit. It was just mad unprofessional.

6:25

Now they just added a requirement where you have to meet with their accountant once a quarter, too. They continuously add things you have to do. I thought we were done with the grant, but people behind the scenes advocated and extended it. It was just enough money where we didn't want to say no, but now we have to deal with them for another year.

6:48

So wait, weekly, monthly, and quarterly reports? What's the difference between what you're reporting on a weekly basis versus a quarterly basis?

6:58

Nothing.

6:59

Okay.

7:00

I say that because, what's changing? We taught a different lesson to the same kids, but nothing fundamentally changes in a week on our end. Yet the stuff we have to report to them is no different.

7:16

And this is for less than half a million dollars. We've gotten way larger grants that came with hardly any reporting, whereas with this, we're constantly being micro-monitored.

7:29

So, Jacob, how many full-time staff members do you have over at Inner Spark?

7:34

Seven.

7:35

Okay, seven people. Now for one of your grants, you're expected to spin up reports every week, every month, and every quarter. I feel like all the nonprofit professionals listening to this podcast are going to say, "I have 15 other hats to wear, and now I've got these reports on top of it."

7:52

Tell me, if you were the one designing the grant, what would be a reasonable expectation? Because obviously, I get it—they're giving you money and they want to know what it's spent on. There is a level of accountability. What would make this reasonable?

8:09

Honestly, if I were a foundation, the way I would set up grant reporting—from the application all the way to the reporting—would be way more scientific. It would be less about trying to get people to report back on arbitrary outcomes, like "90% of kids did XYZ."

8:26

It would be more like: "What's your hypothesis for this year? How are you going to test it? What do you want to learn?"

8:32

Then I would structure the grant in a way where the reporting consists of grantees coming together to share what they're learning about their process, their program, and the people their program impacts.

8:46

That is how you create a system that incentivizes learning, evolving, and adapting. It allows organizations to share what's working, what's not working, and what's going on in the community—as opposed to now, where we just give them some percentages and they don't do anything with them.

9:14

It sounds like your approach—spoken like a true educator—focuses on a real relationship where the funder truly cares about the growth and impact of that nonprofit. Sometimes, numbers on a page just don't tell that story.

9:34

Yeah, for sure. Even if attendance was one of the metrics—say you're trying to get 90% of kids to come to school regularly—and that's all you report back, you haven't learned anything meaningful.

9:48

We didn't learn what makes kids want to come to school. We didn't learn what's getting in the way of them coming. We didn't even learn if the 90% of kids who are present actually want to be there and are mentally engaged versus checked out.

10:01

You could say that for every single outcome. The way that foundation—and most foundations—want us to report back just lacks any level of scientific rigor. You can't really learn or take too much from the data.

10:20

Yeah. You've also given us an example that it's okay sometimes to push back. Sometimes we can feel a little bit—maybe "bullied" is a strong word—but we feel like, "Gosh, I've got this person breathing down my neck and I have 15 other things to do." It's okay to call it out and ask, "Is this necessary?" or "Could you give me a little more time or context?" What are your thoughts around speaking your piece?

10:46

Yeah, do that. Do that! I do that a lot now, because our relationship with philanthropy is such an important part of the work. It really dictates what the work even is.

11:01

Unless enough of us speak out about what we need, what the community is actually saying they want, what's helpful, and what gets in the way, philanthropy will never change. If we don't speak up, they are for sure never going to change.

11:16

Some of us have to start speaking out, taking those risks, and stop being afraid. I pushed back, and while we're still dealing with these administrative hurdles, we're still getting the checks, too.

11:26

I feel confident speaking up, and more of us have to take on that burden. So I would say: please do that. Stand up, be confident, have the audacity. That's my word for 2026: embrace the audacity and do what you know you need to do.

11:48

All the nonprofit professionals listening to this podcast know that they have enough to do and they know what's actually going to move the needle for their community. For your kids, that's your priority—not creating reports for the sake of creating reports. So I applaud your audacity, Jacob. Keep it up!

12:08

For sure, thank you. To your point, those people haven't even seen what you do day-to-day, so how can they tell you what's important or not?

12:14

Right, exactly!

12:17

Well, I appreciate you sharing your story. I appreciate you doing the good work and speaking up when something just shouldn't continue, because the more we as a community do that, that's when change happens.

12:30

I appreciate you being here today. And for all the nonprofit professionals listening out there, here's your reminder to hydrate, practice self-care, and if it helps, please submit your own diary entry by clicking on the link below. We would love to have you on the podcast.

12:43

Thank you again, Jacob, and we'll see everybody next time!

12:47

For sure. Thank you, Kimberly.